Betrayed: Chapter 21
Jun. 24th, 2011 10:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
zelda_queenZeldaQueen: In which we see a rather pointless ceremony
Projection Room Voices: Starting Media in 3...2...1...
Chapter 21
ZeldaQueen: Zoey starts off the Full Moon ritual, and all she goes on about is how pissed off she is at Neferet, how Neferet is clearly up to no good, etc. Summarizing never really does this thing justice, so let's take a look, shall we?
"Not only would no one understand, but also no one would believe what I was beginning to see: that there was something dark and wrong about Neferet. And why should anyone understand or believe me? I was, after all, just a kid. No matter what powers Nyx had given me I was totally not in the same league with a High Priestess. Besides that, no one except me had witnessed the little puzzle pieces that were fitting together to create such a terrible picture"
ZeldaQueen: Uh huh. You know Zoey, your having the pieces isn't really that helpful either, seeing as you seem totally incapable of actually remembering them. And again, this all would probably have a lot more impact in other circumstances, but now it just comes across like Zoey's saying "Neferet stole my ideas! How evil! Why can't anyone but me see what a bitch she is?"
Also, I have nary a clue where that "I'm just a kid, no one will listen to me" thing is coming from. This is honestly the first time that Zoey's age has factored into her decision-making process in this regard thus far. In fact, the only time I've ever heard her talk about how she's just a kid and it hinders her progress to her goals is when she's trying to get it on with Blake...ew. Never mind.
Anyway, Zoey realizes that the only person who would understand and believe her is Aphrodite. I'm still not entirely certain why she can't tell her friends. Yes, I know the excuse she gave, that Neferet would read their body language and learn that they know, but how is that different for Aphrodite? In fact, given how Neferet is trying to make sure that no one knows about Aphrodite's visions, you'd think she'd be under more scrutiny.
Jack whispers to Zoey to tell him when to start the music. Apparently he's a tech guy, so he's in charge of the audio equipment. Zoey moves forward and has all eyes upon her and...Loren Blake shows up. *dully* Oh goody, I was missing that creeper. He surprises Zoey, prompting her to cry out "Crap, Loren! You scared me so bad I almost peed on myself!" *rubs head* I guess the vast number of students watching her just didn't hear that remark, because I find it hard to believe that no matter how reverent they are, a group of high school students can stay totally quiet and respectful when someone giving a presentation says something like that.
Loren starts to be all seductive andsleazy sexy and touches her arm and Zoey starts yammering to the readers about how it probably looked like an innocent gesture, but it totally felt like a caress and might I remind the jury that her boyfriend is standing not two feet away and she was just angsting over her behavior while he was gone and how much she regretted it? Oh no, she remembers that Erik's watching. She remembers it while she gives Blake a flirty smile. *head desk*
Blake tells her that he's going to recite a poem for the ritual, much like how he did for that one time he showed up in Marked. He goes off to inform Jack about this slight change in plans and Zoey wonders if anyone else noticed their flirting. She looks at Erik, who cheerfully winks to her, and decides not. Oh, and we're told that Shaunee and Erin are openly staring at Blake's butt. When they see that Zoey notices this, they waggle their eyebrows. That's...charming.
At this point, Blake returns and starts to open the ceremony. Zoey compares his ability to get people to listen to Erik's ability. Am I the only one a little disturbed that she's constantly appraising and comparing her boyfriends? Anyway, Blake implies in his speech that it was, in fact, Zoey who had the ideas and not Neferet, and Zoey instantly goes gaga because oh look at what a kind and wonderful person he is!!! He then turns the mike back to Zoey, and has Jack start up the music for the ritual - Aldebaren, by Enya.
ZeldaQueen: Yes, because lord knows, nothing screams "deep-rooted tradition" like a 1987 Irish piece.
I mean, yes she says she picked it because she liked it and in any other circumstances I'd be fine with that, but Zoey was previously slamming on Aphrodite for using more modern aspects and wanted to go way, way back for her ritual. I mean, I know 80's music isn't the most modern stuff there is, but it's also hardly traditional ancient Greek. Given how it was praised so much in Marked, I'm wondering if it's just personal appeal for one of the Cast ladies.
Oh but wait, Zoey has other justifications for using it. Aldebaren is also the name of a star and that really relates to the Full Moon Ritual. Yeah that makes sense, because the moon is totally a star, right?
No, wait, that's actually very stupid.
I'm serious. I can't think of any way the star Aldebaren relates to ancient Greece, Nyx, vampires, darkness, or the full moon. The only thing it has in common with that last one is that they both are things in outer space, and if that's all the justification needed, Zoey probably would have done better to use Holst's Jupiter. At least that would also have the justification of fitting better with her desire for tradition and given that Jupiter was the Roman name of Zeus, leader of the Olympians, it would fit with the general Greek mythology and Zoey's leading of the fledglings.
It's kind of depressing to think that I'm putting more thought into this thing than the Suethors who were paid for it.
Blake starts to recite a William Blake poem and Zoey starts doing an impromptu dance. Being a Sue, she of course does it perfectly, even though we've never been told that she has any sort of dancing experience or similar things. And yes, I know it is possible, but it's certainly not so easy to do a nice, graceful dance without any sort of practice or forethought.
Zoey makes it to the center of the room next to Nyx's table, takes up an ornate lighter, and lights the elemental candles. There's all of this description about how the elements are extra-powerful because Damien, Shaunee, Erin, and Stevie Rae are all so excited and giggly and it's really pointless and I'm skipping over it. Oh, and apparently they're just so powerful and awesome after making all of two elemental circles thus far that they now get silver beams of light connecting them. Gah!
Addressing the students, Zoey tells them how they're changing everything about the Dark Daughters "from the type of
incense burned, to the abuse of our classmates".
Cast ladies. Yes. We freaking well know that you mentioned once in the first book that pot was used as incense and that it's the most evilest thing ever. We know that you think that smoking a joint is the worst thing a teenager can do. For the love of fuck shut up about it!
I'm sorry, I know it's a little thing, but that really pisses me off, how they have Zoey lump the bleeding and abuse and bullying of students with using pot as incense! How are those two things even worth uttering together? I...GAH!
Anyway, there's a bland speech from Zoey about the full moon and starting over, blah, blah, blah. She then starts to introduce the other people in her circle, and how they represent their elements.
She starts with Damien, "My friend Damien is the most authentic person I know, even when being true to himself has been a hard thing to be. He represents air well". If by that you mean he never shuts up about how he's gay, then yes, yes he is. Shaunee "is the most faithful person I know. If she's on your side, she's there whether you're right or wrong—and if you're wrong she'll tell you about yourself, but she won't desert you. She represents fire well". *snorts* Oh, just keep that one in mind for the fourth book, ladies and gentlemen. Erin is described as "My friend Erin's beauty sometimes fools people into thinking she has great hair, but no brains. It's not true. She is one of the wisest people I know, and Nyx proved that she looks to the interior when she chose Erin. She represents water well". Yes, "wise" is what I'd certainly call someone who thinks the word "propensity" is overly difficult. Lastly, Stevie Rae "always knows when I'm happy or sad, stressed or relaxed. She worries about me; she worries about all of her friends, sometimes she is too empathetic, and I'm glad that now she has the earth she can draw strength from. She represents earth well". Erm, is it just me, or did that not actually explain how Stevie Rae represented Earth well?
And then everyone goes on about how Zoey represents spirit well and she's moved to tears, and so on and all that noise
Onward to: Chapter 22
Back to: Chapter 20
Back to: Table of Contents
Projection Room Voices: Starting Media in 3...2...1...
Chapter 21
ZeldaQueen: Zoey starts off the Full Moon ritual, and all she goes on about is how pissed off she is at Neferet, how Neferet is clearly up to no good, etc. Summarizing never really does this thing justice, so let's take a look, shall we?
"Not only would no one understand, but also no one would believe what I was beginning to see: that there was something dark and wrong about Neferet. And why should anyone understand or believe me? I was, after all, just a kid. No matter what powers Nyx had given me I was totally not in the same league with a High Priestess. Besides that, no one except me had witnessed the little puzzle pieces that were fitting together to create such a terrible picture"
ZeldaQueen: Uh huh. You know Zoey, your having the pieces isn't really that helpful either, seeing as you seem totally incapable of actually remembering them. And again, this all would probably have a lot more impact in other circumstances, but now it just comes across like Zoey's saying "Neferet stole my ideas! How evil! Why can't anyone but me see what a bitch she is?"
Also, I have nary a clue where that "I'm just a kid, no one will listen to me" thing is coming from. This is honestly the first time that Zoey's age has factored into her decision-making process in this regard thus far. In fact, the only time I've ever heard her talk about how she's just a kid and it hinders her progress to her goals is when she's trying to get it on with Blake...ew. Never mind.
Anyway, Zoey realizes that the only person who would understand and believe her is Aphrodite. I'm still not entirely certain why she can't tell her friends. Yes, I know the excuse she gave, that Neferet would read their body language and learn that they know, but how is that different for Aphrodite? In fact, given how Neferet is trying to make sure that no one knows about Aphrodite's visions, you'd think she'd be under more scrutiny.
Jack whispers to Zoey to tell him when to start the music. Apparently he's a tech guy, so he's in charge of the audio equipment. Zoey moves forward and has all eyes upon her and...Loren Blake shows up. *dully* Oh goody, I was missing that creeper. He surprises Zoey, prompting her to cry out "Crap, Loren! You scared me so bad I almost peed on myself!" *rubs head* I guess the vast number of students watching her just didn't hear that remark, because I find it hard to believe that no matter how reverent they are, a group of high school students can stay totally quiet and respectful when someone giving a presentation says something like that.
Loren starts to be all seductive and
Blake tells her that he's going to recite a poem for the ritual, much like how he did for that one time he showed up in Marked. He goes off to inform Jack about this slight change in plans and Zoey wonders if anyone else noticed their flirting. She looks at Erik, who cheerfully winks to her, and decides not. Oh, and we're told that Shaunee and Erin are openly staring at Blake's butt. When they see that Zoey notices this, they waggle their eyebrows. That's...charming.
At this point, Blake returns and starts to open the ceremony. Zoey compares his ability to get people to listen to Erik's ability. Am I the only one a little disturbed that she's constantly appraising and comparing her boyfriends? Anyway, Blake implies in his speech that it was, in fact, Zoey who had the ideas and not Neferet, and Zoey instantly goes gaga because oh look at what a kind and wonderful person he is!!! He then turns the mike back to Zoey, and has Jack start up the music for the ritual - Aldebaren, by Enya.
ZeldaQueen: Yes, because lord knows, nothing screams "deep-rooted tradition" like a 1987 Irish piece.
I mean, yes she says she picked it because she liked it and in any other circumstances I'd be fine with that, but Zoey was previously slamming on Aphrodite for using more modern aspects and wanted to go way, way back for her ritual. I mean, I know 80's music isn't the most modern stuff there is, but it's also hardly traditional ancient Greek. Given how it was praised so much in Marked, I'm wondering if it's just personal appeal for one of the Cast ladies.
Oh but wait, Zoey has other justifications for using it. Aldebaren is also the name of a star and that really relates to the Full Moon Ritual. Yeah that makes sense, because the moon is totally a star, right?
No, wait, that's actually very stupid.
I'm serious. I can't think of any way the star Aldebaren relates to ancient Greece, Nyx, vampires, darkness, or the full moon. The only thing it has in common with that last one is that they both are things in outer space, and if that's all the justification needed, Zoey probably would have done better to use Holst's Jupiter. At least that would also have the justification of fitting better with her desire for tradition and given that Jupiter was the Roman name of Zeus, leader of the Olympians, it would fit with the general Greek mythology and Zoey's leading of the fledglings.
It's kind of depressing to think that I'm putting more thought into this thing than the Suethors who were paid for it.
Blake starts to recite a William Blake poem and Zoey starts doing an impromptu dance. Being a Sue, she of course does it perfectly, even though we've never been told that she has any sort of dancing experience or similar things. And yes, I know it is possible, but it's certainly not so easy to do a nice, graceful dance without any sort of practice or forethought.
Zoey makes it to the center of the room next to Nyx's table, takes up an ornate lighter, and lights the elemental candles. There's all of this description about how the elements are extra-powerful because Damien, Shaunee, Erin, and Stevie Rae are all so excited and giggly and it's really pointless and I'm skipping over it. Oh, and apparently they're just so powerful and awesome after making all of two elemental circles thus far that they now get silver beams of light connecting them. Gah!
Addressing the students, Zoey tells them how they're changing everything about the Dark Daughters "from the type of
incense burned, to the abuse of our classmates".
Cast ladies. Yes. We freaking well know that you mentioned once in the first book that pot was used as incense and that it's the most evilest thing ever. We know that you think that smoking a joint is the worst thing a teenager can do. For the love of fuck shut up about it!
I'm sorry, I know it's a little thing, but that really pisses me off, how they have Zoey lump the bleeding and abuse and bullying of students with using pot as incense! How are those two things even worth uttering together? I...GAH!
Anyway, there's a bland speech from Zoey about the full moon and starting over, blah, blah, blah. She then starts to introduce the other people in her circle, and how they represent their elements.
She starts with Damien, "My friend Damien is the most authentic person I know, even when being true to himself has been a hard thing to be. He represents air well". If by that you mean he never shuts up about how he's gay, then yes, yes he is. Shaunee "is the most faithful person I know. If she's on your side, she's there whether you're right or wrong—and if you're wrong she'll tell you about yourself, but she won't desert you. She represents fire well". *snorts* Oh, just keep that one in mind for the fourth book, ladies and gentlemen. Erin is described as "My friend Erin's beauty sometimes fools people into thinking she has great hair, but no brains. It's not true. She is one of the wisest people I know, and Nyx proved that she looks to the interior when she chose Erin. She represents water well". Yes, "wise" is what I'd certainly call someone who thinks the word "propensity" is overly difficult. Lastly, Stevie Rae "always knows when I'm happy or sad, stressed or relaxed. She worries about me; she worries about all of her friends, sometimes she is too empathetic, and I'm glad that now she has the earth she can draw strength from. She represents earth well". Erm, is it just me, or did that not actually explain how Stevie Rae represented Earth well?
And then everyone goes on about how Zoey represents spirit well and she's moved to tears, and so on and all that noise
Onward to: Chapter 22
Back to: Chapter 20
Back to: Table of Contents
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 05:16 am (UTC)Zoey is a soulless monster who treats men like slabs of meat and makes the (attempted) rapist sympathetic by comparison because at least she had a reason for being a bitch! She is a complete idiot who can't see obviously evil people until those people have wronged HER.
I stick by my belief that she's a complete sociopath and her "friends" are using her for power.
The Nyx of this story is an evil goddess...
Poor Erik is suffering from PTSD and being manipulated by the bitch.
And of course Blake is a total creep...
I hate you Zoey and I am beginning to take this story as a personal offense...
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 01:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 02:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 02:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 02:18 pm (UTC)Still, Hush, Hush, is certainly more frightening, I agree with you.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 03:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 08:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-26 01:19 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-03-27 12:50 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-25 08:49 pm (UTC)And yet she's supposed to be so wise and mature. *rolls eyes* Zoey is about as mature as a green banana.
/Loren starts to be all seductive and sleazy sexy and touches her arm and Zoey starts yammering to the readers about how it probably looked like an innocent gesture, but it totally felt like a caress and might I remind the jury that her boyfriend is standing not two feet away and she was just angsting over her behavior while he was gone and how much she regretted it? Oh no, she remembers that Erik's watching. She remembers it while she gives Blake a flirty smile./
*head-desk* You know what, just break up with Erik already. It's obvious that you don't deserve him and that you couldn't care less about him. I can't wait for him to dump your cheating, self-absorbed posterior.
/Oh, and we're told that Shaunee and Erin are openly staring at Blake's butt. When they see that Zoey notices this, they waggle their eyebrows./
You know what, I'd like to see how these drooling idiots would like it if a group of guys started to hound them with wolf-whistles and cat-calls and very loudly took notes on their looks with their buddies. See how *they* like being objectified and ogled.
/I can't think of any way the star Aldebaren relates to ancient Greece, Nyx, vampires, darkness, or the full moon./
Me neither. I looked on Wikipedia and Aldebaran was featured in Inuit, Dakota, and Mexican mythology, as well as Hindu myths. Aldebaran was also honored as one of the Four Royal Stars in ancient Persia and its name derives from the Arabic word for "The Follower." The only connection to Greek mythology that I can see is that Aldebaran is one of the stars in the constellation Taurus, which, as we all know, has the shape of a bull: the form that Zeus/Jupiter took when he ran off with Europa. Actually, considering that sleazy Loren Blake shows up in this chapter...maybe that's some twisted foreshadowing right there.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-26 01:47 am (UTC)*snrk* Best analogy ever.
"*head-desk* You know what, just break up with Erik already. It's obvious that you don't deserve him and that you couldn't care less about him. I can't wait for him to dump your cheating, self-absorbed posterior."
Oh, that'll be at the end of the next book. I read it. It's GLORIOUS. Except we're apparently supposed to disagree, but I don't care. We're also not supposed to like Leah Clearwater. ^_^
"The only connection to Greek mythology that I can see is that Aldebaran is one of the stars in the constellation Taurus, which, as we all know, has the shape of a bull: the form that Zeus/Jupiter took when he ran off with Europa. Actually, considering that sleazy Loren Blake shows up in this chapter...maybe that's some twisted foreshadowing right there."
Interestingly, mythological bulls *do* apparently play roles in the later books. I don't know much about that, though.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-26 02:29 am (UTC)Erik dumping Zoey will be the happiest moment in the entire book series; well unless we get a scene of Zoey getting run over...
...
/You know what, I'd like to see how these drooling idiots would like it if a group of guys started to hound them with wolf-whistles and cat-calls and very loudly took notes on their looks with their buddies. See how *they* like being objectified and ogled./
It'd probably just be played as "men are oh so sexist (unless they are gay or Zoey has the hots for them)" and the book will never acknowledge the sick nature of these women. In fact I bet if someone brought it up to the Cast ladies they would either deny it, use the "all (non-gay) men are evil and sexist ,or real heterosexual menwould be honored to have women treat them like a piece of meat with no meaningful feelings or thoughts [eye-roll] I think I might actually hate the Cast ladies.
It's probably wrong to hate people you know little about, but yeah I think I'm justified in this...
/The only connection to Greek mythology that I can see is that Aldebaran is one of the stars in the constellation Taurus, which, as we all know, has the shape of a bull: the form that Zeus/Jupiter took when he ran off with Europa. Actually, considering that sleazy Loren Blake shows up in this chapter...maybe that's some twisted foreshadowing right there./
The real reason - you put more thought into this than they did. They probably just picked a random star and are trying to sound smart and spiritual - like most suethors...
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-26 01:49 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-26 04:02 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-29 07:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-29 08:05 pm (UTC)You know, I heard the Casts got an LGBTQ award for their stereotypical gay characters, its quite depressing really. They seem to be reinforcing stereotypes instead of stopping them.
Oh btw did you get my reply to your message?XD
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-29 08:07 pm (UTC)And yes, I got your message! XD I'm sorry for the late reply, but my computer restarted itself overnight and closed every tab I had open. *_*
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-29 08:13 pm (UTC)And its okay XD I was just wondering if it didnt get through
(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-21 03:39 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-26 05:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-26 01:02 pm (UTC)THEORY: One of the casts is also Link's Queen.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-29 07:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-30 01:28 pm (UTC)Humankind Against Detraction (HAD) has a nice ring to it.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-02 04:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-02 08:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-17 06:12 am (UTC)Oh, so you're 'just a kid' when you're whining and bitching about Neferet when she 'stole' your ideas, but it's just fine and dandy when you're playing that card when Blake sleazes onto you? *barf* The irony...
And Zoey actually has the nerve to flirt with Blake while Erik is on stage in front of her??? And Aphrodite is meant to be the slut in this story… *roll eyes*
Wait, if Blake is such a 'poet,' how come he's always reciting other poets' works? Isn't he meant to be a poet laureate or something? He wrote one haiku! :P Like Zoey cares, though. Hell, even if Blake started reciting Cannibal Corpse lyrics, he'd still be 'soooo hawt' in Zoey's eyes, she doesn't give a shit :P
Wait, they played Enya at the ceremony? The very music Heifer declared 'evil'? I laughed my arse off! :P If only he had been there, he would have had a shit fit! :D "Turn this heathen music off this instant!"
If Zoey was dancing like a looney tune in front of me and I was sitting in the audience, I'd be pissing myself laughing :D Seriously, how could no student not laugh at that and think 'what the fuck is this, she's the one who's taking over the Dark Daughters??!!
And that speech was so badly written, it's was stupid. How could an editor not realise how clunky that sounded or bore no resemblance to how the characters really act in this story? And it was pretty much Zoey talking about how all her friends benefit her in some capacity with their Sue-per powers and breathing in her own smug! I think the student body should stage a mutiny :D I can see them all just rolling their eyes throughout the stupid speech…
(no subject)
Date: 2011-07-20 03:10 am (UTC)Dude, you're right. O_o Although it's probably for the best. I don't think I want to know what PC and Kristen Cast consider original, swoon-worthy poetry.
"If Zoey was dancing like a looney tune in front of me and I was sitting in the audience, I'd be pissing myself laughing :D Seriously, how could no student not laugh at that and think 'what the fuck is this, she's the one who's taking over the Dark Daughters??!!"
I find it impossible to believe that there isn't at least one kid who's laughing at this set-up period. I remember my high school years well. These sorts of school-sponsored events never went over well. I can't count how many students tried to outright sneak out of them, just so they could go home early. That's not even mentioning the ones who snuck their ipods or various hand-held devices to distract themselves or talked with their friends or just took a nap. The only excuse we ever get is from the Fledgeling 101 handbook, which is all "We have STANDARDS for our fledgelings, you're not some stupid, slobby HUMAN teenager anymore!"
I would be so happy if they mutinied. Zoey is such a narcissistic idiot, I'd love to see the look on her face. "But...but I thought you loved me! D:" XD
(no subject)
Date: 2011-08-14 10:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-09-22 04:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-09-23 03:54 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-09-23 12:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-02-21 03:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-11-09 07:47 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-11-10 03:12 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2015-06-10 04:27 pm (UTC)So. I've dabbled in Wicca before. Guess what? I know the elemental associations!
1. Air. This is the element of intellect. I have no idea where authenticity comes in—if anything, air (along with water) can be a bit duplicitous and turbulent. There's also a lot of communication in it, which is something Damien is not good at.
2. Fire. What do you think fire is? Passion! Intensity!
Ranting about stupid things!It's used for creation, destruction, renewal, healing. It is not faithful, it is capricious and dangerous. Casts, have you ever, y'know, seen a fire?3. Water. Intuition, flexibility, emotion, purification. This is the one that fits the most closely with the above. It's also considered, frequently, particularly feminine.
4. Earth. Stability, strength, probably faithfulness could be in here too! But that intuition? Emotion? That's up there in Water, dumbass. Also a lot of fertility stuff. *cough*
Funny how the actual associations correspond much better to the shreds of personality we have for these guys than what Zoey said. If this were an author, rather than a Suethor, I'd figure it was a sign that she was really out of touch and did not study anything. Or, y'know, understand her friends at all.
Now, associations do vary from practice to practice, but this is broadly what they're used for, and I've never heard of someone using those associations. HnnnnNNNNNG.
Edit: borked my tags.