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zelda_queenProjection Room Voices: Part 2 of Breaking Dawn sporking about to begin. ZeldaQueen, are you ready?
ZeldaQueen: Nearly. I’ve looked over the notes and notes from the future for this though, and I’d like to request a few additional sporkers for help.
Projection Room Voices: Certainly. Which ones?
ZeldaQueen: Hmm, what about the Cheer! girls?
Projection Room Voices: All four of them?
ZeldaQueen: On second thought, just Alex and Lita. Sam and Jo might have a bit of trouble, if the hints that I’ve gotten are any indicator…
Projection Room Voices: Very well. *intercom* Will Alex King and Cher Lita Harper please report to the Sporking Chamber?
*minutes pass while elevator music plays*
Lita: What is it? I was sleeping!
Alex: Greetings comrades! What endeavor so thoroughly taxes your mental and emotional prowress in sporking that you must call upon us for aide and support?
ZeldaQueen: Um, we’re doing Part 2 of Breaking Dawn.
Lita: Never heard of it.
ZeldaQueen: It has vampires in it.
Lita: Like from Basements & Balrogs?
ZeldQueen: They sparkle and have X-men powers.
Lita: Spar - wah?
Alex: Never fear, dear friend! We shall not fail you in your time of need! Let us set forth with our sporks at hand so that we may do a great service to readers everywhere and protect the Realm of Literacy. Begin the Media!
Projection Room Voices: Playing Media in 3...2...1...
Chapter 8: Waiting For The Damn Fight To Start Already (Part 1)
Lita: That’s the title?
Alex: Indeed, it appears to be better suited to be the caption of a picture.
ZeldaQueen: They all appear to be like that for this section. Which doesn’t make much sense, I mean with Bella she has the intelligence and logic of Jack Chick so you could understand why she could only muster one-word titles. Jacob isn’t particularly long-winded though. Oh, and we also get a quote from the bard.
Lita: Meyer's really attached to those, isn't she?
ZeldaQueen: Yep. We get A Midsummer Night's Dream, which is pretty appropriate. After all, nothing says "true love" like a play about dominating females, brainwashing love, and threatening rape in the woods.
Lita: Look, can we move on? The quote is "And yet, to say the truth, reason and love keep little company together nowadays."
ZeldaQueen: Pfffft! Meyer must be secretly psychic about her work. Or she's secretly doing some gloriously sneaky joke.
Alex: It matters not. We then move on to our glorious…very badly mislabeled…opening in which…only one sentence long…Preface.
ZeldaQueen: Yeah. We get the quote “Life sucks, and then you die” and then someone - Jacob I presume - saying “Yeah, I should be so lucky” And that’s it. No names, no action, no lead-in, it literally is only that.
Lita: Hey, shouldn’t Meyer have said where the quote was from maybe?
Alex: Indeed, if one borrows the sage advice and sayings of others, then one had best give them credit. What sort of a person would shamelessly steal the words of others?
ZeldaQueen: Keiran Halcyon. Forget that though, I ran a Google search I ran while Alex was talking, but I still haven’t found the origin of the phrase. I do remember it being on Style’s T-shirt in Teen Wolf though.
Lita: So Meyer’s a liar when she said that other stuff didn’t influence her?
ZeldaQueen: Quite possibly, but I doubt she would have liked the movie. Scott actually makes a choice about the girl he wants to date and it isn’t an infant.
Lita: Weird.
Alex: Shall we continue, gentlemen? After that rather brief and generically bitter and “emo” quote, we move straight along into the dark depths of the first chapter documenting the tragic tale of one Jacob Black.
Lita: Yeah, “tragic” in the sense that we have to sit through this. And we start straight off with Jacob fighting with fellow werewolf Paul, who’s mooching off of him, sitting on his sofa and watching his TV and eating all of the Doritos, the horror. Listen buddy, I’ve got a family of eight and a D&D group that’s always crashing at my place, plus my three friends. Do you see me getting worked up just because they decide to sit on the furniture and watch TV and have a few chips?
Alex: I was unaware of the fact that our weekend rendezvous were such a bother to you.
Lita: They aren’t, I’m just saying that it’s not like it’s that much that Jacob’s got to put up with there. Paul’s mooching a little, not stealing his loose pocket change and eating his house plants.
ZeldaQueen: …I don’t think “rendezvous” is the word you were looking for there, Alex. Anyway, Jacob is really annoyed and we find out that Paul’s there because of Jacob’s sister, Rachael. You remember Rachael, mentioned once way back in Chapter 6 of Twilight, when Bella is stunned to find that she was in college, as Rachael is only a year older. Well apparently Meyer remembered that she had a single female character who was doing something with her life, because it turns out that Paul has imprinted on her last summer, when Rachael came home. To be fair though, apparently Rachael actually had graduated from Washington State by that point in time.
Lita: Is that the best sort of relief we get in this?
ZeldaQueen: Considering how the Emily and Claire imprinting went - yes. I wouldn’t have put it past Meyer to have had Rachael drop out of college to marry Paul. Jacob is grateful that Rachael is now in the loop - since wolves can tell the imprintees everything - but is none to pleased by the fact that Paul will be his brother-in-law one day, nor the fact that four of the ten wolves have imprinted by now. Because it was mentioned before that it was rare and Jacob remembers this and is angry that it is happening so much and finds the love-at-first sight thing sickening.
Lita: Hey, I hear you. All of those couples at Tandy, always making out in the corridors…
Alex: Nonsense! The joining of two to be one is a beautiful concept that may be traced back to the dawn of time. Love is, after all, but a battlefield and -
Lita: *reading series footnotes* One of the wolves imprinted on an infant.
Alex: We must…undertones of pedophilia…carry on bravely with this…very disturbing…tradition of…that’s quite nauseating.
ZeldaQueen: Yep. Now you know. Just wait until we get to the wolf girl Leah.
Lita: Wait, why do the Native Americans all have Old Testament names?
ZeldaQueen: Meyer named most of them after her siblings. Including Paul, the violent one, and Jacob who’s…just Jacob. Oy.
Lita: So yeah, Jacob has had enough and punches Paul in the nose, breaking the nose, SWEET!
Alex: Perchance did the author take into account the angle and force, so that we might judge how close to the “bone to the brain” technique Jacob came?
ZeldaQueen: Alex, Meyer didn’t even take into account wind speed and water tension when Bella leapt off of a cliff in New Moon. Facts are optional for her and I’m not exaggerating.
Alex: …That makes no sense whatsoever.
ZeldaQueen: You caught on quickly. Jacob notes that his father seems to be handling the imprinting thing better, though he spends a lot more time at the Clearwater household, which Jacob thinks is not much better. "No Paul, but plenty of Leah."
Alex: What sort of mockery is this, in which this woman's name is dragged through the mud before we even see her?
ZeldaQueen: Did you guys read the series footnotes for this at all?
Lita: No! We didn't know we'd be sporking this! Hold on a minute. *scans furiously* Here we go, Leah Clearwater is the only female werewolf, was screwed over when her fiancee Sam imprinted on her cousin Emily, and is considered angry and bitter and shrewish by the pack as a result.
Alex: Excuse me? Angry and bitter?
ZeldaQueen: Yeah, I wonder why. So guys, please buckle in. Leah is Meyer's chew toy for anti-feminism and since this section is about wolves...
Alex: We must forge onward. Only when we are strong in spirit may we grow in strength of body.
Lita: Whatever. Let's get on with it.
ZeldaQueen: Jake starts angsting over Bella's inevitable death or faking thereof and how exactly the Cullens would go about doing it. He also pretty clearly expresses his desire to attack and kill the Cullens and is very annoyed with Sam for having the gall to tell him to uphold the treaty and leave them alone until they draw first blood (har har). He also thinks about how he can get Edward in a one-on-one fight if he kills one of the other Cullens first.
Alex: But tell me, was it not Edward alone with whom Jacob held a grudge?
ZeldaQueen: Yep.
Alex: And he intends to kill just to invoke Edward's wrath? What sort of dishonorabl strategy is this?!?
Lita: Hold on a second... *flips through Midnight Sun footnotes* Isn't this eerily similar to Edward planning how he wants to rip up that Mike kid and those rapists?
ZeldaQueen: Mmhmm.
Lita: And these guys are what the author considers to be the best kinds of men to date?
ZeldaQueen: Exactly.
Alex: What utter stupidity! I am disgusted to think that such a backwards and primative view could be held in this world of progression! What kind of insanity would cause anyone to think in such a manner?
Lita: Word. Makes me glad that we have each other, Alex.
Alex: Well...and Sam and Jo as well...correct?
Lita: Yeah, and them too. Why're you all nervous now?
ZeldaQueen: Jacob takes off for the beach, where he meets packmate Quil, who is there with Claire, the girl he'd imprinted on and will marry one day.
Alex: This "imprinting", I believe, was viewed by many sporkers before us with much ire and revoltion, true?
ZeldaQueen: Exactly. As Claire runs around the beach, Jacob asks Quil if she's hit the "terrible twos" and is told that she in fact just turned three. He -
Lita: WTF?!?!?!?
Projection Room Voices: No chatspeak in the Sporking Chamber.
Lita: Shut up! *to ZeldaQueen* This is the guy who swore eternal love to an infant?
ZeldaQueen: Yeah, wasn't that in the series footnotes.
Lita: I think so, but I think I kinda blocked it out...
Alex: This is disgusting! Such putrid views ought never to be brought up outside of police arrest series! And yet this is being portrayed as something innocent and pure, love of the highest degree? Madness I say, madness!
Lita: Yo, say what you want about that date we had, it was a lot less creepy than this.
Alex: Never again will I complain when you force me to dress in a tuxedo and follow you to grace the halls of Kirby's Steak House with your presence.
ZeldaQueen: Oh, and this is how Claire speaks:
"'Gone, gone, gone,” Claire sang, “Cwaire pway wid Qwil aaaawl day. Cwaire nebber gowin home.' She let go of me and ran to Quil. He scooped her up and slung her onto his shoulders."
Lita: You know, I'm fairly sure that my three-year-old sister doesn't talk like that.
Alex: She does not. I believe that to be less "accurate" than "stereotypical" in the dialect of childhood. Has Meyer never had children before?
ZeldaQueen: Yes, several. But nothing else in this series has been factually accurate, so at least she's staying consistent. Jacob and Quil discuss Claire's third birthday, in which Quil was dressed in a tiara and play make-up. Claire begins to demand that Quil pick up a rock for her and he starts trying to guess which one. And we get this:
"The weird part was, Quil was having just as much fun as she was. He didn't have that face on that so many of the tourist dads and moms were wearing–the when-is-nap-time? face. You never saw a real parent so jazzed to play whatever stupid kiddie sport their rugrat could think up. I'd seen Quil play peekaboo for an hour straight without getting bored."
Lita: This...is getting creepy.
Alex: "Getting"?
ZeldaQueen: I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is a terrible theme in this series where the "true loves" slowly edge their way into a character's life and replace friends and family. It's most prominent with Bella, when Edward cuts into the time she spends with Charlie and her friends and abuses her truck - which I pointed out before was a gift from her dad that she says she liked. But there are others. Look at Emily. She and Leah were very close and Emily never wanted Sam. Then Sam imprints on her and starts fawning over her and the next thing you know, Emily is engaged to him, kissing him, and apparently has dropped Leah like a hot potato. We see at the beginning of this chapter that Paul is constantly hanging out at the Black household with Rachael, which has begun to pit her against Jacob. In all of these cases, the girl is being separated from her family and shifted to her boyfriend/fiancee.
Now arguably, this is a theme which has been used in other places, one of the oldest being the myth of Hades kidnapping Persephone. Time was, women were expected to leave their own families to join their husband's. That was how it traditionally was, and still is in some places. There is still a problem here - the ages of the girls. Bella is eighteen, Rachael is nineteen, and while I'm not sure how old Emily is, she's probably in her early twenties. While those were ages in which girls were shipped off to be only with their husbands years ago, it's different today. While a girl in that age range is technically an adult, she'd still normally be dependant or at least still linked to her family. Even if she's dating or engaged, her family would still play a big part in her life (I might add that society also tends to be suspicious of early marriages in general - as Bella noted, people see it as rash and the sort of behavior associated with a girl getting knocked up and trying to hide things). But these girls are already being separated. That is not right at all.
Still, there are probably some people who would find it acceptable in the case of Bella or Rachael or Emily. But let us now look at Quil and Claire - as an imprinted wolf, he is spending every spare minute with her. He is caring for her, playing with her, and as Jacob put it, is basically her nanny. We never see her being cared for by her parents, only Quil. Jacob, in the quote above, basically came right out and said that Quil - a man who imprinted and was all ready for love and marriage - was better at caring for Claire than her own parents were. In other words, he's already begun to edge his way in and replace them. Before she is even in kindergarden. WHAT THE HELL MEYER, HOW DO YOU NOT SEE HOW THIS IS WRONG? From the way it looks, Claire is not getting the proper bonding with her parents. Quil has taken over in that department. Which leads to another problem: Westermarck and Filial imprinting. Yes Meyer, real-life imprinting. Ready for a lecture everyone?
Lita: Have at it.
Alex: Speak, dear friend, and educate the streaming masses who seem to believe that this is "good" literature.
ZeldaQueen: Thank you. Let's start with Filial imprinting. In this type of imprinting, a young child learns the characteristics of its parents. It lets the child learn behaviors, but more importantly it also lets the child learn who the parents are. It's mostly been observed amongst birds, so many of you probably see those pictures of ducklings following people around like the person's their mother.
ZeldaQueen: Now here's the thing - filial imprinting is also applicable to human children. In other words, a human child like Claire would imprint on a person that she percieves to be "parent" to her. Now granted, I am not entirely sure how young a child must be when filial imprinting takes place. But I believe that the formative years happen before age four, which Claire has yet to reach. So let's say that's the case. And let's say that Quil spends more time with her and caring for her than her actual parents do (which appears to be the case) - wouldn't she imprint on him and see him as her "parent"? In other words, he's taken the role of parent from her biological parents before she has even bonded with them!
And it gets even better. Let's skip along to the Westermack effect. This is what is known as reverse sexual imprinting. In a nutshell, it's a phenomenon in which when a person is raised in close proximity to another for the first few years of their life, they are desensitized to sexual attraction to that person. In other words, this is why you don't normally feel the urge to screw your siblings that you've lived with since you were one year old. Studies have verified this and proven that the critical age for the effect to take place is age six. That is to say that if children are reared together before age six, they do not feel sexual attraction to each other. Claire is three. She is being raised by Quil more or less.
In other words, Meyer has failed long and hard and has been very creepy in the process. In trying to establish a relationship that she insists is innocent and pure, she has only set up something doomed - Quil will inevitably want to marry and nail Claire. And yes, he will. Because Jacob gives us this:
"Though I did think it sucked that he had a good fourteen years of monkitude ahead of him until Claire was his age–for Quil, at least, it was a good thing werewolves didn't get older. But even all that time didn't seem to bother him much."
ZeldaQueen: So yes, he has every intention to marry Claire with all that implies. And there's no way she can refuse. She has to continue his bloodline and have babies. But as my five-second search on Google demonstrated, there's very little chance for Claire to return those feelings. Psychologically, she'd register him as a parent or at least a family member and not feel sexually attracted to him. So what then? She'd feel like she would be sleeping with her dad! Oh, and Meyer? Some other theatrical and literary characters who planned to marry girls that they knew since said girls where children?
ZeldaQueen: Funny how those couples usually aren't remembered as the paragons of romance.
Alex: *eye twitches* I really...
Lita: I roll the dice to see if my +3 katana can let me commit suicide... Dang it.
Alex: Impailed upon your own sword...or rather, not.
Lita: I need a new Dungeon Master.
ZeldaQueen: I need a break! Can we get a break?
Projection Room Voices: Find a stopping point first.
Alex: Ugh, very well! As Quil frolics with his underage paramour, Jacob has the gall to as the outlandish question of if Quil has ever considered dating another girl while he awaits his beloved to hit the legal age, or at least her pre-teens. Quil stands with his mouth agap and seems to honestly not know what sort of answer that question warrents.
Lita: Quil then turns his attention back to picking up rocks with Claire, Jacob apologizes like his question was uncalled for or unusual, Quil asks if Jacob has considered getting over Bella and dating other girls, Jacob insists that he sees no one else either, and THIS IS SO WRONG! How can the author think this is sweet?
ZeldaQueen: It's pathetic! Jacob's a teenager with his entire life ahead of him and he's mooning over the first girl he apparently got decently attached to and who married someone else. Meyer, people move on and date other people if first relationships don't work out! Stop making it look like that's a selfish and evil thing to do! *pants furiously* Anyway, Sam calls all wolves to assemble and Jacob agrees to go find out what it's about so Quil doesn't have to leave Claire if he doesn't have to and is this a good stopping point?
Projection Room Voices: Erm...yes. Yes it is.
ZeldaQueen: GOOD! You know, I usually like werewolves over vampires, but this sucks! Meyer has taken my favorite mythological creature and made them creepy and stupid and I hate them and they make me angry!
Alex: Agreed. May I be so bold as to request that you not ask us to spork this section again anytime soon?
ZeldaQueen: *grumpily* Fine! I'll get someone else!
Lita: Great. I knew that +2 Cloak of Escape would come in handy!
Projection Room Voices: Okay...just go take a break and you can finish the chapter later.
Onward to: Chapter 8: Waiting For The Damn Fight To Start Already (Part 2)
Back to: Chapter 7: Unexpected
Return to: Table of Contents
ZeldaQueen: Nearly. I’ve looked over the notes and notes from the future for this though, and I’d like to request a few additional sporkers for help.
Projection Room Voices: Certainly. Which ones?
ZeldaQueen: Hmm, what about the Cheer! girls?
Projection Room Voices: All four of them?
ZeldaQueen: On second thought, just Alex and Lita. Sam and Jo might have a bit of trouble, if the hints that I’ve gotten are any indicator…
Projection Room Voices: Very well. *intercom* Will Alex King and Cher Lita Harper please report to the Sporking Chamber?
*minutes pass while elevator music plays*
Lita: What is it? I was sleeping!
Alex: Greetings comrades! What endeavor so thoroughly taxes your mental and emotional prowress in sporking that you must call upon us for aide and support?
ZeldaQueen: Um, we’re doing Part 2 of Breaking Dawn.
Lita: Never heard of it.
ZeldaQueen: It has vampires in it.
Lita: Like from Basements & Balrogs?
ZeldQueen: They sparkle and have X-men powers.
Lita: Spar - wah?
Alex: Never fear, dear friend! We shall not fail you in your time of need! Let us set forth with our sporks at hand so that we may do a great service to readers everywhere and protect the Realm of Literacy. Begin the Media!
Projection Room Voices: Playing Media in 3...2...1...
Chapter 8: Waiting For The Damn Fight To Start Already (Part 1)
Lita: That’s the title?
Alex: Indeed, it appears to be better suited to be the caption of a picture.
ZeldaQueen: They all appear to be like that for this section. Which doesn’t make much sense, I mean with Bella she has the intelligence and logic of Jack Chick so you could understand why she could only muster one-word titles. Jacob isn’t particularly long-winded though. Oh, and we also get a quote from the bard.
Lita: Meyer's really attached to those, isn't she?
ZeldaQueen: Yep. We get A Midsummer Night's Dream, which is pretty appropriate. After all, nothing says "true love" like a play about dominating females, brainwashing love, and threatening rape in the woods.
Lita: Look, can we move on? The quote is "And yet, to say the truth, reason and love keep little company together nowadays."
ZeldaQueen: Pfffft! Meyer must be secretly psychic about her work. Or she's secretly doing some gloriously sneaky joke.
Alex: It matters not. We then move on to our glorious…very badly mislabeled…opening in which…only one sentence long…Preface.
ZeldaQueen: Yeah. We get the quote “Life sucks, and then you die” and then someone - Jacob I presume - saying “Yeah, I should be so lucky” And that’s it. No names, no action, no lead-in, it literally is only that.
Lita: Hey, shouldn’t Meyer have said where the quote was from maybe?
Alex: Indeed, if one borrows the sage advice and sayings of others, then one had best give them credit. What sort of a person would shamelessly steal the words of others?
ZeldaQueen: Keiran Halcyon. Forget that though, I ran a Google search I ran while Alex was talking, but I still haven’t found the origin of the phrase. I do remember it being on Style’s T-shirt in Teen Wolf though.
Lita: So Meyer’s a liar when she said that other stuff didn’t influence her?
ZeldaQueen: Quite possibly, but I doubt she would have liked the movie. Scott actually makes a choice about the girl he wants to date and it isn’t an infant.
Lita: Weird.
Alex: Shall we continue, gentlemen? After that rather brief and generically bitter and “emo” quote, we move straight along into the dark depths of the first chapter documenting the tragic tale of one Jacob Black.
Lita: Yeah, “tragic” in the sense that we have to sit through this. And we start straight off with Jacob fighting with fellow werewolf Paul, who’s mooching off of him, sitting on his sofa and watching his TV and eating all of the Doritos, the horror. Listen buddy, I’ve got a family of eight and a D&D group that’s always crashing at my place, plus my three friends. Do you see me getting worked up just because they decide to sit on the furniture and watch TV and have a few chips?
Alex: I was unaware of the fact that our weekend rendezvous were such a bother to you.
Lita: They aren’t, I’m just saying that it’s not like it’s that much that Jacob’s got to put up with there. Paul’s mooching a little, not stealing his loose pocket change and eating his house plants.
ZeldaQueen: …I don’t think “rendezvous” is the word you were looking for there, Alex. Anyway, Jacob is really annoyed and we find out that Paul’s there because of Jacob’s sister, Rachael. You remember Rachael, mentioned once way back in Chapter 6 of Twilight, when Bella is stunned to find that she was in college, as Rachael is only a year older. Well apparently Meyer remembered that she had a single female character who was doing something with her life, because it turns out that Paul has imprinted on her last summer, when Rachael came home. To be fair though, apparently Rachael actually had graduated from Washington State by that point in time.
Lita: Is that the best sort of relief we get in this?
ZeldaQueen: Considering how the Emily and Claire imprinting went - yes. I wouldn’t have put it past Meyer to have had Rachael drop out of college to marry Paul. Jacob is grateful that Rachael is now in the loop - since wolves can tell the imprintees everything - but is none to pleased by the fact that Paul will be his brother-in-law one day, nor the fact that four of the ten wolves have imprinted by now. Because it was mentioned before that it was rare and Jacob remembers this and is angry that it is happening so much and finds the love-at-first sight thing sickening.
Lita: Hey, I hear you. All of those couples at Tandy, always making out in the corridors…
Alex: Nonsense! The joining of two to be one is a beautiful concept that may be traced back to the dawn of time. Love is, after all, but a battlefield and -
Lita: *reading series footnotes* One of the wolves imprinted on an infant.
Alex: We must…undertones of pedophilia…carry on bravely with this…very disturbing…tradition of…that’s quite nauseating.
ZeldaQueen: Yep. Now you know. Just wait until we get to the wolf girl Leah.
Lita: Wait, why do the Native Americans all have Old Testament names?
ZeldaQueen: Meyer named most of them after her siblings. Including Paul, the violent one, and Jacob who’s…just Jacob. Oy.
Lita: So yeah, Jacob has had enough and punches Paul in the nose, breaking the nose, SWEET!
Alex: Perchance did the author take into account the angle and force, so that we might judge how close to the “bone to the brain” technique Jacob came?
ZeldaQueen: Alex, Meyer didn’t even take into account wind speed and water tension when Bella leapt off of a cliff in New Moon. Facts are optional for her and I’m not exaggerating.
Alex: …That makes no sense whatsoever.
ZeldaQueen: You caught on quickly. Jacob notes that his father seems to be handling the imprinting thing better, though he spends a lot more time at the Clearwater household, which Jacob thinks is not much better. "No Paul, but plenty of Leah."
Alex: What sort of mockery is this, in which this woman's name is dragged through the mud before we even see her?
ZeldaQueen: Did you guys read the series footnotes for this at all?
Lita: No! We didn't know we'd be sporking this! Hold on a minute. *scans furiously* Here we go, Leah Clearwater is the only female werewolf, was screwed over when her fiancee Sam imprinted on her cousin Emily, and is considered angry and bitter and shrewish by the pack as a result.
Alex: Excuse me? Angry and bitter?
ZeldaQueen: Yeah, I wonder why. So guys, please buckle in. Leah is Meyer's chew toy for anti-feminism and since this section is about wolves...
Alex: We must forge onward. Only when we are strong in spirit may we grow in strength of body.
Lita: Whatever. Let's get on with it.
ZeldaQueen: Jake starts angsting over Bella's inevitable death or faking thereof and how exactly the Cullens would go about doing it. He also pretty clearly expresses his desire to attack and kill the Cullens and is very annoyed with Sam for having the gall to tell him to uphold the treaty and leave them alone until they draw first blood (har har). He also thinks about how he can get Edward in a one-on-one fight if he kills one of the other Cullens first.
Alex: But tell me, was it not Edward alone with whom Jacob held a grudge?
ZeldaQueen: Yep.
Alex: And he intends to kill just to invoke Edward's wrath? What sort of dishonorabl strategy is this?!?
Lita: Hold on a second... *flips through Midnight Sun footnotes* Isn't this eerily similar to Edward planning how he wants to rip up that Mike kid and those rapists?
ZeldaQueen: Mmhmm.
Lita: And these guys are what the author considers to be the best kinds of men to date?
ZeldaQueen: Exactly.
Alex: What utter stupidity! I am disgusted to think that such a backwards and primative view could be held in this world of progression! What kind of insanity would cause anyone to think in such a manner?
Lita: Word. Makes me glad that we have each other, Alex.
Alex: Well...and Sam and Jo as well...correct?
Lita: Yeah, and them too. Why're you all nervous now?
ZeldaQueen: Jacob takes off for the beach, where he meets packmate Quil, who is there with Claire, the girl he'd imprinted on and will marry one day.
Alex: This "imprinting", I believe, was viewed by many sporkers before us with much ire and revoltion, true?
ZeldaQueen: Exactly. As Claire runs around the beach, Jacob asks Quil if she's hit the "terrible twos" and is told that she in fact just turned three. He -
Lita: WTF?!?!?!?
Projection Room Voices: No chatspeak in the Sporking Chamber.
Lita: Shut up! *to ZeldaQueen* This is the guy who swore eternal love to an infant?
ZeldaQueen: Yeah, wasn't that in the series footnotes.
Lita: I think so, but I think I kinda blocked it out...
Alex: This is disgusting! Such putrid views ought never to be brought up outside of police arrest series! And yet this is being portrayed as something innocent and pure, love of the highest degree? Madness I say, madness!
Lita: Yo, say what you want about that date we had, it was a lot less creepy than this.
Alex: Never again will I complain when you force me to dress in a tuxedo and follow you to grace the halls of Kirby's Steak House with your presence.
ZeldaQueen: Oh, and this is how Claire speaks:
"'Gone, gone, gone,” Claire sang, “Cwaire pway wid Qwil aaaawl day. Cwaire nebber gowin home.' She let go of me and ran to Quil. He scooped her up and slung her onto his shoulders."
Lita: You know, I'm fairly sure that my three-year-old sister doesn't talk like that.
Alex: She does not. I believe that to be less "accurate" than "stereotypical" in the dialect of childhood. Has Meyer never had children before?
ZeldaQueen: Yes, several. But nothing else in this series has been factually accurate, so at least she's staying consistent. Jacob and Quil discuss Claire's third birthday, in which Quil was dressed in a tiara and play make-up. Claire begins to demand that Quil pick up a rock for her and he starts trying to guess which one. And we get this:
"The weird part was, Quil was having just as much fun as she was. He didn't have that face on that so many of the tourist dads and moms were wearing–the when-is-nap-time? face. You never saw a real parent so jazzed to play whatever stupid kiddie sport their rugrat could think up. I'd seen Quil play peekaboo for an hour straight without getting bored."
Lita: This...is getting creepy.
Alex: "Getting"?
ZeldaQueen: I've said it before and I'll say it again: there is a terrible theme in this series where the "true loves" slowly edge their way into a character's life and replace friends and family. It's most prominent with Bella, when Edward cuts into the time she spends with Charlie and her friends and abuses her truck - which I pointed out before was a gift from her dad that she says she liked. But there are others. Look at Emily. She and Leah were very close and Emily never wanted Sam. Then Sam imprints on her and starts fawning over her and the next thing you know, Emily is engaged to him, kissing him, and apparently has dropped Leah like a hot potato. We see at the beginning of this chapter that Paul is constantly hanging out at the Black household with Rachael, which has begun to pit her against Jacob. In all of these cases, the girl is being separated from her family and shifted to her boyfriend/fiancee.
Now arguably, this is a theme which has been used in other places, one of the oldest being the myth of Hades kidnapping Persephone. Time was, women were expected to leave their own families to join their husband's. That was how it traditionally was, and still is in some places. There is still a problem here - the ages of the girls. Bella is eighteen, Rachael is nineteen, and while I'm not sure how old Emily is, she's probably in her early twenties. While those were ages in which girls were shipped off to be only with their husbands years ago, it's different today. While a girl in that age range is technically an adult, she'd still normally be dependant or at least still linked to her family. Even if she's dating or engaged, her family would still play a big part in her life (I might add that society also tends to be suspicious of early marriages in general - as Bella noted, people see it as rash and the sort of behavior associated with a girl getting knocked up and trying to hide things). But these girls are already being separated. That is not right at all.
Still, there are probably some people who would find it acceptable in the case of Bella or Rachael or Emily. But let us now look at Quil and Claire - as an imprinted wolf, he is spending every spare minute with her. He is caring for her, playing with her, and as Jacob put it, is basically her nanny. We never see her being cared for by her parents, only Quil. Jacob, in the quote above, basically came right out and said that Quil - a man who imprinted and was all ready for love and marriage - was better at caring for Claire than her own parents were. In other words, he's already begun to edge his way in and replace them. Before she is even in kindergarden. WHAT THE HELL MEYER, HOW DO YOU NOT SEE HOW THIS IS WRONG? From the way it looks, Claire is not getting the proper bonding with her parents. Quil has taken over in that department. Which leads to another problem: Westermarck and Filial imprinting. Yes Meyer, real-life imprinting. Ready for a lecture everyone?
Lita: Have at it.
Alex: Speak, dear friend, and educate the streaming masses who seem to believe that this is "good" literature.
ZeldaQueen: Thank you. Let's start with Filial imprinting. In this type of imprinting, a young child learns the characteristics of its parents. It lets the child learn behaviors, but more importantly it also lets the child learn who the parents are. It's mostly been observed amongst birds, so many of you probably see those pictures of ducklings following people around like the person's their mother.
ZeldaQueen: Now here's the thing - filial imprinting is also applicable to human children. In other words, a human child like Claire would imprint on a person that she percieves to be "parent" to her. Now granted, I am not entirely sure how young a child must be when filial imprinting takes place. But I believe that the formative years happen before age four, which Claire has yet to reach. So let's say that's the case. And let's say that Quil spends more time with her and caring for her than her actual parents do (which appears to be the case) - wouldn't she imprint on him and see him as her "parent"? In other words, he's taken the role of parent from her biological parents before she has even bonded with them!
And it gets even better. Let's skip along to the Westermack effect. This is what is known as reverse sexual imprinting. In a nutshell, it's a phenomenon in which when a person is raised in close proximity to another for the first few years of their life, they are desensitized to sexual attraction to that person. In other words, this is why you don't normally feel the urge to screw your siblings that you've lived with since you were one year old. Studies have verified this and proven that the critical age for the effect to take place is age six. That is to say that if children are reared together before age six, they do not feel sexual attraction to each other. Claire is three. She is being raised by Quil more or less.
In other words, Meyer has failed long and hard and has been very creepy in the process. In trying to establish a relationship that she insists is innocent and pure, she has only set up something doomed - Quil will inevitably want to marry and nail Claire. And yes, he will. Because Jacob gives us this:
"Though I did think it sucked that he had a good fourteen years of monkitude ahead of him until Claire was his age–for Quil, at least, it was a good thing werewolves didn't get older. But even all that time didn't seem to bother him much."
ZeldaQueen: So yes, he has every intention to marry Claire with all that implies. And there's no way she can refuse. She has to continue his bloodline and have babies. But as my five-second search on Google demonstrated, there's very little chance for Claire to return those feelings. Psychologically, she'd register him as a parent or at least a family member and not feel sexually attracted to him. So what then? She'd feel like she would be sleeping with her dad! Oh, and Meyer? Some other theatrical and literary characters who planned to marry girls that they knew since said girls where children?
ZeldaQueen: Funny how those couples usually aren't remembered as the paragons of romance.
Alex: *eye twitches* I really...
Lita: I roll the dice to see if my +3 katana can let me commit suicide... Dang it.
Alex: Impailed upon your own sword...or rather, not.
Lita: I need a new Dungeon Master.
ZeldaQueen: I need a break! Can we get a break?
Projection Room Voices: Find a stopping point first.
Alex: Ugh, very well! As Quil frolics with his underage paramour, Jacob has the gall to as the outlandish question of if Quil has ever considered dating another girl while he awaits his beloved to hit the legal age, or at least her pre-teens. Quil stands with his mouth agap and seems to honestly not know what sort of answer that question warrents.
Lita: Quil then turns his attention back to picking up rocks with Claire, Jacob apologizes like his question was uncalled for or unusual, Quil asks if Jacob has considered getting over Bella and dating other girls, Jacob insists that he sees no one else either, and THIS IS SO WRONG! How can the author think this is sweet?
ZeldaQueen: It's pathetic! Jacob's a teenager with his entire life ahead of him and he's mooning over the first girl he apparently got decently attached to and who married someone else. Meyer, people move on and date other people if first relationships don't work out! Stop making it look like that's a selfish and evil thing to do! *pants furiously* Anyway, Sam calls all wolves to assemble and Jacob agrees to go find out what it's about so Quil doesn't have to leave Claire if he doesn't have to and is this a good stopping point?
Projection Room Voices: Erm...yes. Yes it is.
ZeldaQueen: GOOD! You know, I usually like werewolves over vampires, but this sucks! Meyer has taken my favorite mythological creature and made them creepy and stupid and I hate them and they make me angry!
Alex: Agreed. May I be so bold as to request that you not ask us to spork this section again anytime soon?
ZeldaQueen: *grumpily* Fine! I'll get someone else!
Lita: Great. I knew that +2 Cloak of Escape would come in handy!
Projection Room Voices: Okay...just go take a break and you can finish the chapter later.
Onward to: Chapter 8: Waiting For The Damn Fight To Start Already (Part 2)
Back to: Chapter 7: Unexpected
Return to: Table of Contents
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-06 08:24 am (UTC)You know what? Forget Emily, forget Rachel, THIS QUOTE shows us that imprinting is a sick, sexual thing designed simply to have a sex-buddy and continue the genes. WHY DO PEOPLE THINK THIS IS ROMANTIC! IT'S CHILD GROOMING! I can't even type! RAGE!
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 03:30 am (UTC)Imprinting could have been an interesting concept if the nasty parts were noted. Just because someone's been forced to love someone doesn't mean that they can't also wish they weren't or feel disgusted by it. But Quil apparently isn't. When Jacob asks him if he's ever considered dating anyone else until Claire's of age, he just looks like Jake grew another head. Ugh...
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 02:58 pm (UTC)After all, it's one thing to read about Quil and Claire, but it's another thing to put a cute little toddler on screen and have Quil say (paraphrased) "See this cute little girl? Well, in a few years time I'm gonna bang her, so I might as well dig myself as deep into her life as I can!"
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 05:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-08 07:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-08 08:24 pm (UTC)I seriously suspect that the cast and crew know full well how screwed-up the books are and try their best to fix them as much as they can. Meyer apparently is highly involved with the script though ("When Summit [Entertainment] came into the picture, they were so open to letting us make rules for them, like 'Okay, Bella cannot be a track star. Bella cannot have a gun or night vision goggles. And, no jet skis....'") so yeah... Das_mervin noted on the DVD release that a lot of stuff with extra "sexy" scenes were cut and suspects that is why.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-06 02:27 pm (UTC)I'M SO ANGRY I DON'T EVEN THERE IS NO CAPSLOCK BIG ENOUGH TO EXPRESS HOW DISGUSTED AND FURIOUS.
BURN IN HELL, MEYER. AND TAKE YOUR DOUCHEBAG DILDOS WITH YOU.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 03:26 am (UTC)I honestly don't know how she thought that could be romantic. Maybe it would have been acceptable in the Middle Ages or Biblical times or something, but certainly not today. It actually gives me flashbacks to the author of "Hogwarts Exposed". ("Well you may see it as dirty, but it was all done with innocent intentions! You're just prejudice and narrow-minded!")
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-06 06:43 pm (UTC)But, even though I am a fan, I do realize that it's not the pure, perfect relationship that Meyer seems to think her imprinting couples are. And at least Christine had other people in her life - Madame Giry, Meg, Raoul, Mama Valerius (in the original novel), etc. And even though Erik's actions weren't excusable, they were at least understandable, given his circumstances. If not, then at least he was more sympathetic than Jacob and Edward - who are attractive, have families, and can pick any girl they want.
I agree with you that it's very disturbing that Meyer seems to think that being involved with someone requires that you drop everyone else in your life (and you're right that it strongly applies to Bella/Edward as well, even though neither of them imprinted). I mean, I can understand if one of the people in the relationship had a truly horrible and abusive family and wanted to get away from them as much as possible, but that's not the case here in any of the relationships. Bella's parents love her and want what's best for her. Her friends care about her (even though she's been absolutely awful to them). Yet she's willing to leave them forever because, despite all of that, they don't mean anything to her. To her, only Edward and becoming a vampire count.
/ZeldaQueen: It's pathetic! Jacob's a teenager with his entire life ahead of him and he's mooning over the first girl he apparently got decently attached to and who married someone else./
Not to mention a girl who shamelessly and selfishly used him just to be with Edward and crushed his heart to pieces. But that's the thing with Jacob and Edward: they just *don't* realize how terrible Bella really is. They just maintain this idealized image of who she is in their minds and keep persuading themselves that she's a girl worth all of this trouble, no matter how she acts. Jacob and Bella never even actually dated and yet he's still hung up on her - and has the nerve to blame Leah for doing the same thing, but that's another issue.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 03:22 am (UTC)You're exactly right, Erik was called a monster and beaten and lived in isolation for his entire life. Christine was literally the only one there. Jacob certainly had a normal life with presumably other girls he knew (he later mentions that he's seen all of the "other girls" on the reservation). And Edward also had his family and choice of girls. I'm sure Carlisle would have gladly turned a girl for Edward if he said she was his sole mate (see Mrs Hyde's rants, she covers THAT splendidly). That's assuming that Edward went for his seventeen human years without any non-maternal female interaction. It's not like Bella's the One and Only girl they've ever met who's given them the time of day.
"Not to mention a girl who shamelessly and selfishly used him just to be with Edward and crushed his heart to pieces. But that's the thing with Jacob and Edward: they just *don't* realize how terrible Bella really is. They just maintain this idealized image of who she is in their minds and keep persuading themselves that she's a girl worth all of this trouble, no matter how she acts."
It's just like das_mervin said, Edward bashed Mike for building up an image of Bella that didn't exist, but he did exactly the same thing. As did Jacob. And as someone pointed out about the end of the book (which leaves us with yet ANOTHER relationship barrier torn down) "how do you think Edward will feel when it turns out that his deep lady is just as selfish and shallow as the other girls?"
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 04:20 am (UTC)Oh, I see. Actually, I think the part you may be referring to is when Christine is in the graveyard. When Christine calls Erik her "Angel of Music," she doesn't mean that he's her father. She told Meg that while her father was on his deathbed, he said that he'd send her an angel of music to watch over her, implying that somebody else would take his place, not that he himself would be the angel (of course, he probably just said this to comfort her). Erik most likely either overheard him or overheard Christine while she was praying to her father after his death.
But, yeah, that business in the cemetery... *Rubs head* Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy Schumacher's film version, but there are some parts where Christine is seriously dumbed-down. Like that one. "Oh, yes, it's definitely my father, especially since my father's dead and this guy's voice sounds mysteriously like the same voice that I've been hearing for years from the Angel of Music!"
/And as someone pointed out about the end of the book (which leaves us with yet ANOTHER relationship barrier torn down) "how do you think Edward will feel when it turns out that his deep lady is just as selfish and shallow as the other girls?"/
Stephenie Meyer's answer would probably be: "Bella's not shallow!" or "He won't care because he loves her so!" My answer? It won't be pretty.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 04:50 am (UTC)And yeah, Schumacher's film was good for some points (beautiful scenery ^^) but other things just didn't make sense. *sigh* Ah well...
"Stephenie Meyer's answer would probably be: "Bella's not shallow!" or "He won't care because he loves her so!" My answer? It won't be pretty."
Mm, yeah. I'd say it'd be like in the comic "Fables", in which we learn that Prince Charming was quite fickle and had been divorced by all three of his wives (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, and Cinderella). Meanwhile, Beauty and the Beast (the ones in the fairy tale based entirely on building a good relationship before marriage) were both happily married still. I think that says something that would sail straight over Meyer's head...
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 06:36 am (UTC)Oh, really? That's wonderful. I love "Beauty and the Beast." It's one of my favorite fairy tales, it's my favorite Disney movie, and Belle is my favorite Disney heroine. ^^
(no subject)
Date: 2010-02-07 08:03 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-11 01:26 pm (UTC)I was going to comment on the previous chapter, about Bella's instant pregnancy, because if there is one thing I hate more than surprise!pregnancies, it's surprise!pregnancies that will be over within a month of conception.
I've been in a roleplay where one character became surprise!pregnant and had three children in the span of less than six months. Granted, there was a magical reason for the speedup pregnancies, but still. The most annoying thing in those scenes was that both parents in that mix were supposed to be barren, but it was completely disregarded. e_e;;
Anyway, to comment on this chapter-part... word to all the rants. Seriously. I just... Even though I haven't had any bad experiences myself, I've had people close to me who have gone through similar events in the past.
I've thought that the imprinting is creepy as all hell since the first time I heard about it. I was a victim of child-grooming back when I grew up, but thankfully, I wasn't molested or anything like that. It was my best friend's uncle, who was in his mid-twenties at the time, and he was just a fun guy who would play with us and lend us movies from his huge video library. Sadly, my best friend was molested by him. Because she was brave and strong enough to tell her mom what happened, she saved me and my sisters from the guy because then my parents found out about it and could ban him from ever showing up at our house again. He died very suddenly from an aneurysm a few months later, and I do think it was the Bad Karma Fairy stomping on his head that did it.
Regarding the creepiness of Bella cutting all ties to her family and friends... About three or four years ago (I've tried to forget), I had to watch my youngest sister (who was 16 or 17 at the time) get abused by her boyfriend, without being able to do anything. He even convinced her that she should move out of my parents' house and move in with his family. His parents were all "Yeah, sure, that's a great idea!", but no one talked to my parents about it until my sister came home and said "I'm moving out to move in with him", to which my parents both said "Like hell you are" because they realized that he was trying to isolate her from her family and friends.
... He was a creepy guy. My first impression of him when I met him the first time was that I couldn't look him in the eyes. The second time I saw him, I couldn't even bear to look in his general direction, and I couldn't figure out why. It wasn't until I found out what he was doing to my sister that it made sense.
This is why I'm having so much trouble getting through these books myself. ]= I find myself having to rely on this and das_mervin's recaps and sporkings a lot before reading the chapters myself.
... sorry for the huge comment. ^^;; I just couldn't explain my rage over these chapters in any other way.
Big kudos for being able to slog through this entire thing. I wish I was that good at sporking, because while I'm sure it's painful at times, it does look like fun. =]
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-11 02:04 pm (UTC)Surprise pregnancies are annoying if only because they've become a staple of instant drama amongst couples. I could deal with the fast growth, except that it clearly was only done because Meyer couldn't be bothered to write out a full nine months.
Ah man, that's horrible! :( Both of those things, I mean. It's just sick and Meyer probably doesn't even know she's doing it. And the sad part is, as someone pointed out in Mervin's recappings, what about the Twimoms who read this and think it's romantic and have kids who will be hitting the dating scene? It's just all...gah. x(
It's cool. ^^; Twilight brings out the rant in us all. I tell you what, I'm waiting for the movie to come out, if only to see them dance around and try to make Jake/Renesmee look non-squicky (and it's in, oy...). And to see Spoony and Chester Bum go crazy over it. XD
Sporking pretty much depends on how silly the fic is. Like, "My Inner Life" made me laugh, but "Child of Grace" has me violently planning the Sue's murder. Depends. XD
Anyway, thanks for reading and hope you enjoy the rest. ^^;
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-11 02:41 pm (UTC)Agreed. And isn't it always handled the same way? "Oooh, I feel so sick all of a sudden, and I'm eating strange things, that aren't really strange at all. What on earth could it mean? Oh no! I have to throw up!"
Yes, it's usually because the author can't be arsed to write out the whole thing. Not to mention that Bella would never be able to go nine months without angsting about oh, she's getting fat and she's getting old!
I get reminded of that old RP again. XD; a while after the surprise pregnancies happened, one of my characters ended up pregnant, and it took two months of in-game time before she even figured it out and revealed it to anyone. Sadly, she wasn't able to go the whole nine months, because my RP-partner threw a curve-ball at me and it caused her to have the baby prematurely. So I threw one myself and made my character fall into postpartum depression partly brought on by the traumatic events leading to the birth. XD;; No happyland sparkly glow in the hospital room with the new baby there.
I'm worried about the Twihards, but even more so about the Twimoms. These are adult women, who should, in theory, know better. It's not even that hard to see the creepy undertones in this story. I mean, if someone like me who has had to work really hard to learn how to read between the lines has no problem spotting them, why can't they?
Ohh, yes. XD I can't wait for Spoony's review of it. I haven't actually seen the movies, though. I watched the first half of Twilight and I was bored out of my skull. I shouldn't have to wait over an hour for something interesting to happen.
Hah, I can definitely see how Child of Grace could do that to you. Just reading the sporkings make me want to take a blowtorch to her face. D=
I believe I will. =] But I had to stop when I came to Edward and Jacob discussing how Bella should be happy with just any baby instead of this one. I just... Blech. I'll need a lot of tea to get through this.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-11 02:55 pm (UTC)The movies themselves weren't *quite* so infuriating. It's like they figured all of the weird stuff that was so icky and tried their hardest to fix it. Unfortunately, Meyer got power over the script, so she vetoed some stuff. At least though we see the climax of Twilight. It's in the background, but you can see Alice twist Jame's head off and Jasper and Emmett set him aflame. XD And they completely ignored Quil/Claire in Eclipse, which had me hoping that they'd skip Jacob/Renesmee. No such luck. x(
"But I had to stop when I came to Edward and Jacob discussing how Bella should be happy with just any baby instead of this one. I just... Blech. I'll need a lot of tea to get through this."
Oh, best of luck with that one. Seriously, how on Earth do you excuse that?!? And I won't accept "Edward's old-fashioned" or "Edward's unfamiliar with human feelings" as an answer. He's supposed to be eternally in love with Bella and know all about her. He ought to know that she wants his baby and not some random one. -_-
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-11 03:59 pm (UTC)Well, maybe they- No. Or how about- Maybe Ed- No, I seriously can't think of any reason for them to have that stupid conversation. If I hadn't read it myself, I would have thought it was made up. ]=
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-12 02:35 am (UTC)And if you look at Mervin's recapping of the DVD commentary for the first movie and deleted scenes, you'll see that Meyer had a track record of vetoing sexy time bits. One of Bella and Edward's kisses was supposed to be longer and steamier and there was a scene between Esme and Carlisle and one between Victoria and James, which was rather awesome (the two make out. Up against a tree. With Laurent just staring, all "WTF guys?")
I just read the quote "She can have as many babies as she wants. She can have puppies, if that's what it takes". Without context, my first thought was that he would offer to get her a pet to replace having a baby of her own. Boy, was I mixed up on THAT one.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-12 01:46 pm (UTC)Awh. XD Oh god, the mental image of Laurent is now permanently lodged in my brain. Poor guy.
In some ways, I would have preferred that to the actual conversation. It's still monumentally silly to think that a woman who wants to have the baby would settle for a puppy, but at least I don't have to think about them treating Bella like some sort of broodmare(X_X), but about PUPPIES! 8D
(no subject)
Date: 2010-10-05 05:37 pm (UTC)Just... wow. And Meyer has three kids? I think this right here tells us how she feels about children, her own children in particular. What a great mom.
Here's a quote from a GOOD author, one that I've loved to read since I was in high school:
'[Nathan's] voice was quite and calm as he went on, "It's changing diapers when the wife's too busy with another child's illness, or listening to the child prattle after a long tiring day because it's _your child's_ prattle, that makes a father, not getting a girl pregnant. Any fool can do that. It's holding a child who's frightened at night, or tossing one in the air to make her giggle. You've had none of that from Otto. I can understand how you could feel little at his passing."'
--Shadow of a Dark Queen, Raymond Feist
Contrast the ideals of parenting implicit in these two characters. Both of these characters are meant to be sympathetic (Feist's character is a father figure to the protagonist, Eric, who's real father is the local Baron (he was illegitimate and was never acknowledged). Now, which seems closer to a REAL parent, Nathan or Claire's parents.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-10-05 07:02 pm (UTC)And yeah, that second quote is far better of an indicator of a real parent. Or what about Harry Potter, when Teddy Lupin is born and it's the first time we see Remus so happy? Or hey, I always thought the movie "Thirteen Again" was stupid, but there was one part I liked: it was the bit where Zac Effron's character talks about how people should save sex for someone they really love and then talks about the birth of his daughter and how happy he was when he held her for the first time.
Even worse is the fact that Meyer goes on about how great parenthood is and whatnot, and then gives us stuff like this. -_- Really now.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-21 01:24 am (UTC)The first time I read about Quil and Claire I thought Meyer was making a reference to Lolita's Clare Quilty, then I realized I was giving Meyer way too much credit. She would never intentionally portray one of her "shape shifters'" relationship as anything but pure and wonderful, unless it was Leah.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-06-21 02:09 am (UTC)I heard that one. Cleolinda Jones had a theory that someone told Meyer about it as a joke, like "Hey, there was this guy Clare Quilty in this book, and he was in True Love with a child too!" Either that or she told a friend and the friend said "Oh, just like Clare Quilty" and she didn't notice the look of disgust.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-08-11 08:00 am (UTC)Meyer's delusions make me scared. She's batshit insane and it's just... argh.
Who were the people in the photos? I recognise Christine and Erik, but I don't know any of the others...
(no subject)
Date: 2012-08-12 03:21 am (UTC)(Technically in the last one it's not specified if Leon has feelings for Mathilda, but it's still clear that her being in love with him is just more of how screwed up the poor girl is).
(no subject)
Date: 2012-08-12 03:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-08-13 03:03 am (UTC)