I think that Charlie just gave up. His daughter has been a whiny, co-dependent, sociopathic fiend with a death wish for four movies and he has to know that she's lying through her teeth about everything. So I think that he just says, "Fuck it. There's nothing I can do. She clearly does not want me in her life." And the ticket out of town just reinforces that.
I bet Charlie is just going to ignore Bella and her spawn. He'll probably go on to marry Sue and have a great relationship with his stepdaughter Leah (though probably not with Seth, since Seth is such a vampire fanboy that it's sickening). I think he might even have other kids with Sue.
At some point, Bella is going to realize that, just as she couldn't be bothered with her human parents or with human life, Charlie can't be bothered with her or Renesbait or the Cullens. And this is going to eat at Bella forever, because even though she doesn't love Charlie, she does love getting attention. It'll be a double shock to her because Bella has vampires confused with angels. It won't occur to her that anyone would want to ignore her until Charlie does. (Knowing Bella, she'll just burst into whimpering tears and the Cullens will have to soothe her and tell her that everyone really thinks she's wonderful, there there, don't cry.)
As for the stupid battle scene...y'know, Stephenie Meyer was a producer. She had complete creative control. EVERYTHING that happened in that movie happened because Stephenie Meyer wanted it to. She wrote that idiotic battle and tacked it on at the end of filming. So it's not really the fault of the director or the actors or the FX guys. It's all down to Meyer insisting that this was the way it was going to happen, because it was closest to her vision.
I think so too. I wanted to slap Bella so badly, during that scene where she's all "Just understand that I can't tell you about this. Or my mysterious niece-in-law/adopted daughter." God.
I actually wish that in some Meyer-free continuity, Charlie WOULD be a good grandfather to Renesmee. If Meyer hadn't made her such a brat, I'd pity that child immensely. It's obvious her parents don't give a damn about her, and she's got Jacob hovering over her 24/7. I know Mervin's portrayal of her in The Wedding Crashers is almost certainly how she'd be in canon, but I cling to the delusion that with a few decent people to influence her, she has a chance to grow up into a better person.
I'm sure the cop-out was at Meyer's insistence, yeah. Going off of her FAQ, she thought the anticlimax was a fine twist ending. They probably had to twist her arm to get her to agree to as much that happened as it did.
I cling to the delusion that with a few decent people to influence her, she has a chance to grow up into a better person.
Yeah, that would be great. God knows Renesmee isn't to blame for her freakish biology--or for the insane obsession of a pedophiliac werewolf. I want Renesmee and Claire to grow up and fall in love, say "Fuck y'all" to the vampires and werewolves (except for Leah, of course, because Leah is all the awesome), and then go off and build a very human life for themselves somewhere that actually including making the world a better and happier place. Oh, and Renesmee drops her clunky first name and renames herself by changing one letter in her middle name--going from Carlie to Charlie, which just makes her grandfather BEAM when she tells him.
Bella, of course, regards her daughter as a miserable failure and is deeply, deeply ashamed of her.
Sounds like a few fanfics I've read, one of which was all about the multiple times Renesmee went to college and had nice, normal boyfriends and hobbies and did fun things. She also spent every summer visiting Charlie, and went fishing with him.
/I think that Charlie just gave up. His daughter has been a whiny, co-dependent, sociopathic fiend with a death wish for four movies and he has to know that she's lying through her teeth about everything. So I think that he just says, "Fuck it. There's nothing I can do. She clearly does not want me in her life."/
Spoony pretty much said the same thing in his reviews of "Breaking Dawn." Charlie knows that he can't do anything and he knows that his daughter doesn't care about his feelings, so he just gives up.
But yes, since both Charlie and Leah know what it's like to be constantly belittled and demeaned by the people that they care about, they can certainly relate to each other and will hopefully have a great relationship.
/As for the stupid battle scene...y'know, Stephenie Meyer was a producer. She had complete creative control. EVERYTHING that happened in that movie happened because Stephenie Meyer wanted it to. She wrote that idiotic battle and tacked it on at the end of filming. So it's not really the fault of the director or the actors or the FX guys. It's all down to Meyer insisting that this was the way it was going to happen, because it was closest to her vision./
Yeah, I had a feeling that Meyer was going to weigh in on the ending and make sure that it was tailored to what she had written. Because as soon as I saw the trailers for the movie that featured a battle scene, I thought, "Either Meyer is throwing a temper tantrum right now because the filmmakers dared to change her ending or it will all turn out to be Alice's vision." Not surprisingly, it turned out to be the latter.
Can I repeat, YET AGAIN, about Washington and the Pacific Northwest...
WE. DO NOT. GET SNOW. LIKE EVERYONE. FUCKING. ELSE. NO SNOW. UNTIL JANUARY. The snow is like SLUSH. It's not solid awesome like back east. IT'S WET, SLUSHIE, AND IT FUCKING SUCKS. NOTHING 'SETTLES'. I FUCKING HATE THOSE TWO WHOLE WEEKS IN JANUARY. TRUST ME. I GOD DAMN FUCKING LIVE HERE.
ARE WE FUCKING CLEAR NOW? ANY QUESTIONS?
More sense if she said 'When the wind starts blowing' because WE GET WINDSTORMS.
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT. OUR WEATHER ISN'T THAT FUCKING HARD.
Also, does no one remember the shitload of VOLCANOS in Washingon State? No? Cool. What about the fact that we are all waiting for the BIG EARTHQUAKE? The one that is suppose to rival that one that happened in Japan in 2011? No? Nothing? Awesome.
Question: Since it's obvious Meyer had creative control, doesn't it make it MORE obvious that Leah's....incident....was just another jab from Meyer because Leah is a favorite for the Anti's? That is what I got.
I remember Mount St. Helen's, at least. I didn't know that there were many volcanoes in Washington--or that everyone is waiting for a big earthquake. (Though I suppose it's logical, since everyone's heard of California's problems in that area and Washington isn't THAT far away.)
Also, you can HAVE the snow that we get back East. I'll take quickly melting slush any day of the week.
Oh, are you serious? What are you talking about? Yes, we DO have non-slush snow here in Washington state. It may have been freak weather and not common occurrence, but it's not impossible! Come on, now. Where in Washington DO you live?
We had snow some two years ago in October/November. I went sledding in the park and made snow mountains in my front yard, so it sure as heck not slush.
We had another one last year. Around the same time. November or December, I'm not sure. It's also the same snow as the previous year. Powdery, but went pretty solid the next day. My friends went and made a giant snowball in the park.
And have you forgotten then heavy snow of 2008, the worst snowstorm to ever hit the Pacific Northwest in A DECADE?? Snow was so thick that people were stuck at home for days. My neighbour made a giant snowman TALLER THAN THEIR HOUSE and it stayed there until well past Christmas.
I live in BC, which the Canadian province right above Washington. Yes, we can get snow but it depends on where you live. On the island I live on, snow is pretty much replaced with mush while in the mountain area I used to live in the snow stayed for a while, but that's the thing: mountains can keep snow for a long time, places near the ocean? Not so much.
Yeah, but that person above me was saying - no, she was screaming that it DOESN'T HAPPEN EVER in the whole state of Washington.
I live in Washington too, obviously. It's only been for 4 years, but I've witnessed three snowfalls that didn't turn into slush. Pretty sure this is not the first time this happens, so some part of Washington DO get non-slushy snow.
She's generalizing the whole state just based on what she experienced in whatever town she lived. That is just as bad as Meyer's fact fails. If you're accusing Meyer of failing facts, you can't give flawed facts to back up your point.
Can't edit my previous comment so this is just to add:
Please don't generalize and please fact-check before refuting Meyer. Just because you don't get snow in the city you live, doesn't mean that it's the same in the rest of Washington.
"What about the fact that we are all waiting for the BIG EARTHQUAKE? The one that is suppose to rival that one that happened in Japan in 2011? No? Nothing? Awesome."
Well, if the events of this movie happened, it'd be happening any second now. I was not exaggerating when I said there was A RIVER OF MAGMA at the bottom of that chasm. Probably they put it in because oh, Meyer's vampires are so God-Modded that throwing 'em down a ravine wouldn't have done anything. Bah.
"Question: Since it's obvious Meyer had creative control, doesn't it make it MORE obvious that Leah's....incident....was just another jab from Meyer because Leah is a favorite for the Anti's? That is what I got."
It think there was SOMETHING going on behind it, because near as I remember, Leah and Seth were the only two werewolves killed off on-screen and those two are the ensemble darkhorses of the werewolves. Given that Leah died saving Esme, I'd bet that it was Meyer's way of "redeeming" her. In Meyer's head, a girl seems to only be redeemed if she gets a boyfriend or dies. Leah lost Sam and has no chance of getting anyone else interested in her, so sacrificing herself for a vampire was probably her "redemption". >_<
I'm betting Meyer heard of Vlad the Impaler and thought "Vladimir" was somehow a variant of "Vlad".
The Lusty Wench has yet to see Mervin's readings of the Illustrated Guide, so she didn't know how much name fail was in the series. The "Vladimir = Romanian not Russian" thing really confused her. I had to assure her several times throughout the movie that no, Vladimir wasn't a Russian vampire with a badly-done accent, he was a Romanian vampire with a stupid name.
From what I understand, "Vladimir" is the form of the name from Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus. The Romanian version would just be "Vlad".
There was some other name fail that Mervin discussed, mainly to do with the fact that the "Romanian" vampires were actually from before Romania was around. If I recall correctly, the Illustrated Guide said they were from Dacia. I think Mervin said that one of the two's names weren't around in the days of Dacia. At the very least, both names seemed to have come from Christian origins and, from what I gather, Christianity wasn't too big in Dacia. And given Meyer's word that vampires can't change their viewpoints after being transformed...yeah. The fact that they consider themselves Romanian instead of Dacian to begin with is stupid.
Funny you should mention Avatar. I think the producers are AWARE of that, because the guy who plays Benjamin had a role in Avatar: Legend of Korra. In case you didn't follow Korra, the guy was voice actor for Tahno, who was a waterbender. I'm pretty sure the fact that Benjamin's grand entrance had him "bending" the pool's water to block the door is no coincidence.
Ah yes, that. That made my sister laugh, especially when I mentioned that the person who turned Benjamin was named Amun (she really laughed at that one).
Or when I read Benjamin's bit in the Illustrated Guide, after learning the order Benjamin learned the elements she was like "AAAAAAAAAAA (beat) Could you repeat that?" and she was relieved to learn he didn't learn the elements in the Avatar order.
Oh dear lord. >__< They probably did. He was waterbending, yes, though mostly for amusement/to impress the Cullens.
Of course, that just makes it even stupider. I'd bet ten bucks that a single Bender could take down all the Volturi, let alone the Avatar. Just makes it all the more obvious that Benjamin was overpowered and if he had a brain in his head, he could have used his powers in creative ways to take them down singlehandedly. Like setting them on fire. Doy.
I like to think it was a nudge at the Avatar fans who are in the audience. The people in my theatre hall LOL'd when Benjamin waterbended a wall to block Amun from leaving and cheered when Rami Malek appeared in the credits.
And yes, he could just shoot fireballs at the Volturi or, if they come near him, light up their eyes on fire or something. That'll kill them.
I think the "bending" Benjamin employs would be on par with The Last Airbender. I don't believe anything involving Meyer would have martial arts consultants.
The filmmakers probably realized how pointless the Volturi’s wives were and thus wisely left them out.
Regarding the ethnic stereotypes, it’s also more acceptable in “Hetalia” because the entire premise of the series is spoofing world history. It’s supposed to be a parody, so you’re not supposed to take it seriously.
(However, there are people who dislike Hetalia precisely because it contains stereotypes and presents a humorous spin on history – they think that it cheapens and reduces the gravity of terrible historical events like WWII. Oftentimes, many of APH’s critics will rhetorically ask, “What if they portrayed the Holocaust in the same way that they portray the rest of WWII?” So, there is that viewpoint to consider as well.)
Benjamin’s stupidity can really be chalked up to Meyer, since she was the one who gave him power of all of the elements and yet never thought to have him use fire. However, the filmmakers could have changed that, just like they changed other aspects of the book, so they are partly to blame.
"Regarding the ethnic stereotypes, it’s also more acceptable in 'Hetalia' because the entire premise of the series is spoofing world history. It’s supposed to be a parody, so you’re not supposed to take it seriously."
Right. That, and it's made clear that it's supposed to be just stereotypes. It's not like the author REALLY thinks that all Italians are cowards, all Germans are stuffy and humorless, all Japanese people are emotionally constipated, etc. With Meyer... at best it's very hard to tell what she thinks people of different backgrounds are really like.
(Yeah, I have heard that argument. I suspect that's one of the reasons why the WWII storyline has all but been abandoned in favor of one-shot historic events or the characters interacting and learning about each other. I've also seen fanfiction writers who've handled the issue with differing degrees of success, but it's generally agreed that those things are fanon and will likely never be addressed by canon)
I think so too. It's just one more thing that Meyer failed to think about when she wrote it. Of course, it's hard to know what the filmmakers wanted to do and what Meyer pressured them to do. According to something she wrote on her website, even the fight shown onscreen was more in their favor than she imagined it to be. It sounds like the filmmakers had to twist her arm to get what they did.
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(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-28 07:08 am (UTC)I bet Charlie is just going to ignore Bella and her spawn. He'll probably go on to marry Sue and have a great relationship with his stepdaughter Leah (though probably not with Seth, since Seth is such a vampire fanboy that it's sickening). I think he might even have other kids with Sue.
At some point, Bella is going to realize that, just as she couldn't be bothered with her human parents or with human life, Charlie can't be bothered with her or Renesbait or the Cullens. And this is going to eat at Bella forever, because even though she doesn't love Charlie, she does love getting attention. It'll be a double shock to her because Bella has vampires confused with angels. It won't occur to her that anyone would want to ignore her until Charlie does. (Knowing Bella, she'll just burst into whimpering tears and the Cullens will have to soothe her and tell her that everyone really thinks she's wonderful, there there, don't cry.)
As for the stupid battle scene...y'know, Stephenie Meyer was a producer. She had complete creative control. EVERYTHING that happened in that movie happened because Stephenie Meyer wanted it to. She wrote that idiotic battle and tacked it on at the end of filming. So it's not really the fault of the director or the actors or the FX guys. It's all down to Meyer insisting that this was the way it was going to happen, because it was closest to her vision.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 01:59 am (UTC)I actually wish that in some Meyer-free continuity, Charlie WOULD be a good grandfather to Renesmee. If Meyer hadn't made her such a brat, I'd pity that child immensely. It's obvious her parents don't give a damn about her, and she's got Jacob hovering over her 24/7. I know Mervin's portrayal of her in The Wedding Crashers is almost certainly how she'd be in canon, but I cling to the delusion that with a few decent people to influence her, she has a chance to grow up into a better person.
I'm sure the cop-out was at Meyer's insistence, yeah. Going off of her FAQ, she thought the anticlimax was a fine twist ending. They probably had to twist her arm to get her to agree to as much that happened as it did.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 02:55 am (UTC)Yeah, that would be great. God knows Renesmee isn't to blame for her freakish biology--or for the insane obsession of a pedophiliac werewolf. I want Renesmee and Claire to grow up and fall in love, say "Fuck y'all" to the vampires and werewolves (except for Leah, of course, because Leah is all the awesome), and then go off and build a very human life for themselves somewhere that actually including making the world a better and happier place. Oh, and Renesmee drops her clunky first name and renames herself by changing one letter in her middle name--going from Carlie to Charlie, which just makes her grandfather BEAM when she tells him.
Bella, of course, regards her daughter as a miserable failure and is deeply, deeply ashamed of her.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-12-05 01:48 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-12-02 05:27 pm (UTC)Spoony pretty much said the same thing in his reviews of "Breaking Dawn." Charlie knows that he can't do anything and he knows that his daughter doesn't care about his feelings, so he just gives up.
But yes, since both Charlie and Leah know what it's like to be constantly belittled and demeaned by the people that they care about, they can certainly relate to each other and will hopefully have a great relationship.
/As for the stupid battle scene...y'know, Stephenie Meyer was a producer. She had complete creative control. EVERYTHING that happened in that movie happened because Stephenie Meyer wanted it to. She wrote that idiotic battle and tacked it on at the end of filming. So it's not really the fault of the director or the actors or the FX guys. It's all down to Meyer insisting that this was the way it was going to happen, because it was closest to her vision./
Yeah, I had a feeling that Meyer was going to weigh in on the ending and make sure that it was tailored to what she had written. Because as soon as I saw the trailers for the movie that featured a battle scene, I thought, "Either Meyer is throwing a temper tantrum right now because the filmmakers dared to change her ending or it will all turn out to be Alice's vision." Not surprisingly, it turned out to be the latter.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-28 10:10 am (UTC)WE. DO NOT. GET SNOW. LIKE EVERYONE. FUCKING. ELSE. NO SNOW. UNTIL JANUARY. The snow is like SLUSH. It's not solid awesome like back east. IT'S WET, SLUSHIE, AND IT FUCKING SUCKS. NOTHING 'SETTLES'. I FUCKING HATE THOSE TWO WHOLE WEEKS IN JANUARY. TRUST ME. I GOD DAMN FUCKING LIVE HERE.
ARE WE FUCKING CLEAR NOW? ANY QUESTIONS?
More sense if she said 'When the wind starts blowing' because WE GET WINDSTORMS.
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT. OUR WEATHER ISN'T THAT FUCKING HARD.
Also, does no one remember the shitload of VOLCANOS in Washingon State? No? Cool. What about the fact that we are all waiting for the BIG EARTHQUAKE? The one that is suppose to rival that one that happened in Japan in 2011? No? Nothing? Awesome.
Question: Since it's obvious Meyer had creative control, doesn't it make it MORE obvious that Leah's....incident....was just another jab from Meyer because Leah is a favorite for the Anti's? That is what I got.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-28 04:09 pm (UTC)Also, you can HAVE the snow that we get back East. I'll take quickly melting slush any day of the week.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-28 07:52 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-28 07:49 pm (UTC)We had snow some two years ago in October/November. I went sledding in the park and made snow mountains in my front yard, so it sure as heck not slush.
We had another one last year. Around the same time. November or December, I'm not sure. It's also the same snow as the previous year. Powdery, but went pretty solid the next day. My friends went and made a giant snowball in the park.
And have you forgotten then heavy snow of 2008, the worst snowstorm to ever hit the Pacific Northwest in A DECADE?? Snow was so thick that people were stuck at home for days. My neighbour made a giant snowman TALLER THAN THEIR HOUSE and it stayed there until well past Christmas.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-28 10:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-29 05:50 am (UTC)I live in Washington too, obviously. It's only been for 4 years, but I've witnessed three snowfalls that didn't turn into slush. Pretty sure this is not the first time this happens, so some part of Washington DO get non-slushy snow.
She's generalizing the whole state just based on what she experienced in whatever town she lived. That is just as bad as Meyer's fact fails. If you're accusing Meyer of failing facts, you can't give flawed facts to back up your point.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-29 05:59 am (UTC)Please don't generalize and please fact-check before refuting Meyer. Just because you don't get snow in the city you live, doesn't mean that it's the same in the rest of Washington.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 02:03 am (UTC)Well, if the events of this movie happened, it'd be happening any second now. I was not exaggerating when I said there was A RIVER OF MAGMA at the bottom of that chasm. Probably they put it in because oh, Meyer's vampires are so God-Modded that throwing 'em down a ravine wouldn't have done anything. Bah.
"Question: Since it's obvious Meyer had creative control, doesn't it make it MORE obvious that Leah's....incident....was just another jab from Meyer because Leah is a favorite for the Anti's? That is what I got."
It think there was SOMETHING going on behind it, because near as I remember, Leah and Seth were the only two werewolves killed off on-screen and those two are the ensemble darkhorses of the werewolves. Given that Leah died saving Esme, I'd bet that it was Meyer's way of "redeeming" her. In Meyer's head, a girl seems to only be redeemed if she gets a boyfriend or dies. Leah lost Sam and has no chance of getting anyone else interested in her, so sacrificing herself for a vampire was probably her "redemption". >_<
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-28 11:04 pm (UTC)Stephenie is obviously unaware that:
Romanian is a Romance language, Russian is a Slavic language. They are not even in the same family of languages, let alone interchangable.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 02:06 am (UTC)The Lusty Wench has yet to see Mervin's readings of the Illustrated Guide, so she didn't know how much name fail was in the series. The "Vladimir = Romanian not Russian" thing really confused her. I had to assure her several times throughout the movie that no, Vladimir wasn't a Russian vampire with a badly-done accent, he was a Romanian vampire with a stupid name.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 02:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 03:34 am (UTC)There was some other name fail that Mervin discussed, mainly to do with the fact that the "Romanian" vampires were actually from before Romania was around. If I recall correctly, the Illustrated Guide said they were from Dacia. I think Mervin said that one of the two's names weren't around in the days of Dacia. At the very least, both names seemed to have come from Christian origins and, from what I gather, Christianity wasn't too big in Dacia. And given Meyer's word that vampires can't change their viewpoints after being transformed...yeah. The fact that they consider themselves Romanian instead of Dacian to begin with is stupid.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-29 06:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 01:38 am (UTC)Or when I read Benjamin's bit in the Illustrated Guide, after learning the order Benjamin learned the elements she was like "AAAAAAAAAAA (beat) Could you repeat that?" and she was relieved to learn he didn't learn the elements in the Avatar order.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 02:28 am (UTC)I haven't read the illustrated guide yet, but I wouldn't care even if he did. I'm not that big of an Avatar freak.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 02:09 am (UTC)Of course, that just makes it even stupider. I'd bet ten bucks that a single Bender could take down all the Volturi, let alone the Avatar. Just makes it all the more obvious that Benjamin was overpowered and if he had a brain in his head, he could have used his powers in creative ways to take them down singlehandedly. Like setting them on fire. Doy.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 02:27 am (UTC)And yes, he could just shoot fireballs at the Volturi or, if they come near him, light up their eyes on fire or something. That'll kill them.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-11-30 04:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2012-12-02 05:21 pm (UTC)Regarding the ethnic stereotypes, it’s also more acceptable in “Hetalia” because the entire premise of the series is spoofing world history. It’s supposed to be a parody, so you’re not supposed to take it seriously.
(However, there are people who dislike Hetalia precisely because it contains stereotypes and presents a humorous spin on history – they think that it cheapens and reduces the gravity of terrible historical events like WWII. Oftentimes, many of APH’s critics will rhetorically ask, “What if they portrayed the Holocaust in the same way that they portray the rest of WWII?” So, there is that viewpoint to consider as well.)
Benjamin’s stupidity can really be chalked up to Meyer, since she was the one who gave him power of all of the elements and yet never thought to have him use fire. However, the filmmakers could have changed that, just like they changed other aspects of the book, so they are partly to blame.
(no subject)
Date: 2012-12-19 04:10 am (UTC)Right. That, and it's made clear that it's supposed to be just stereotypes. It's not like the author REALLY thinks that all Italians are cowards, all Germans are stuffy and humorless, all Japanese people are emotionally constipated, etc. With Meyer... at best it's very hard to tell what she thinks people of different backgrounds are really like.
(Yeah, I have heard that argument. I suspect that's one of the reasons why the WWII storyline has all but been abandoned in favor of one-shot historic events or the characters interacting and learning about each other. I've also seen fanfiction writers who've handled the issue with differing degrees of success, but it's generally agreed that those things are fanon and will likely never be addressed by canon)
I think so too. It's just one more thing that Meyer failed to think about when she wrote it. Of course, it's hard to know what the filmmakers wanted to do and what Meyer pressured them to do. According to something she wrote on her website, even the fight shown onscreen was more in their favor than she imagined it to be. It sounds like the filmmakers had to twist her arm to get what they did.